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- So, welcome to Tribeca Cinemas

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And we are here to answer any questions regarding

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"Zeitgeist Moving Forward" and we're here with The Venus Project

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our New York chapter coordinator

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and you are also our New York chapter coordinator.

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I'm not sure... We haven't given a categorization yet, have we?

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- We're co-coordinators... - Co-coordinators, very beautiful.

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I figured as much.

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And open to any questions you guys have to ask.

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(Interviewer #1) The third film is very ambitious and very radical.

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How do you think that it could become a reality

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when you step outside into the city and you see the condition.

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Take a city like New York, for instance. You look at the skyline

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you look at the people, you look at the piles of trash.

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How do you think that we can really transition?

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How realistically speaking, what do you think is...?

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- Well, there's two angles of transition:

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There's the physical transition and then there's the cultural transition.

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And out of both sides, the latter is much more complex.

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The physical transition, rebuilding of buildings:

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this is all technically feasible. It's provably and scientifically concrete

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that we can do much more advanced things with extreme high efficiency.

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So the physical transition isn't a problem to me at all.

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It's the cultural transition. It's the people that are locked

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into this system. It's the people that identify so dogmatically

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that they feel that anything that alters their sense of identity

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is an attack on them. And often

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people identify with social systems.

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They want to believe that their social systems are for them

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just like they want to believe that their governments are for them.

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Just like they want to believe that marketing and advertising

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or corporations like Apple Computer

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has a huge following of people that identify strongly.

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Same thing goes for corporations and social systems.

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So we have the "free market". We live in "freedom" and "democracy"

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and these words have resonant meanings with people

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whatever you want to define them as. It's a whole different subject

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because of the ambiguity of what people have been conditioned

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to believe those words mean. Point being, the cultural transition

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is by far the most difficult. We have to educate people

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on what it means to be sustainable, and get them to understand the need

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to identify with that for their own purposes

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for the reasoning of their own survival

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the survival of their kids and their grand-kids.

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To give it a more concrete definition

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of time span or technical transition

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once you have enough people that believe in this

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then you begin to slowly change certain environments

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and certain regions to more sustainable practices

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more sustainable practices not only regarding industry

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but also what people actually do or engage in.

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And then slowly the system will shift and then hopefully that will spread.

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One more thing I'll add though is that there will be a social breakdown

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which has already been underway for many decades

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which people don't seem to reconcile or pay attention to

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such as the continual doubling of poverty

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the tremendous suffering, the extreme class division

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the onslaught of all sorts of mental diseases, neuroses

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and many things covered in the film as a result literally of this system.

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These things are eventually going to come to a head, when people

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will step back and finally say, "We can't do this anymore!"

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This is affecting all of our health.

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We are suffering tremendously at multiple levels.

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We have energy deficiencies. We have health deficiencies.

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And all of these things will come to a head to an effect where I think

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eventually, slowly, they will permeate

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most consciousness, and people will wake up

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and realize that we have to do something new.

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Either that happens or we're going to move into something

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much, much worse, frankly.

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(Interviewer#1) Right, and that's I think the area

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that I'd like to talk about. How then would the movement

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encourage people to get in front of that or get behind it?

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- I feel my big influence

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I say this, people find it cliché, is the American Civil Rights Movement

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because it actually did work to a certain effect.

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It was allowed to work, if you will

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because of the fact that so many people got behind it.

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The power is in critical mass. I don't believe that politicians

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will do anything. To get into a position of political power

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you have to navigate a certain path

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that automatically creates a void

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for challenging the system, to put it along with its sense.

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You have to orient the status quo to even be in a position

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to have a relationship with the status quo.

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That's just the inevitable motion. You can't possibly have...

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and if they do get in power, something will remove them from it

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and that has been historically true or they're demeaned.

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And the few people that are in power today in the Congress of the US

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Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul

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that have hints of trying to change things for the better

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they get more attacked than any other politician out there.

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They are stifled in their communication.

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So the change will not come from any political system

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and it certainly won't come from a corporate system.

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You are not going to see corporations magically trying to be

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actually sustainable because as I point out in the film

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it is mathematically impossible for them to do so.

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The entire financial system is driven by consumption

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and the more consumption the better; therefore, sustainability

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is intrinsically thrown out the window, and that's just one facet of it.

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So the change will come from critical mass and people understanding...

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Hopefully grassroots level through the Zeitgeist Movement Chapters globally

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it will rise up. It will become dominant

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in the sense that everyone knows about it

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and eventually those status quo institutions

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will have to step back and say "OK

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we can no longer ignore this gigantic, global movement."

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And that will be a peaceful type of interaction. Compromises will be made.

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I'll just add one more thing. If things don't materialize

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if things continue to get worse and worse. If things don't operate

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in a relatively rational way

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where people are paying attention to each other, where the governments

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the United Nations, for example, says "OK. We are going to bring in

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this new organization to see what they have to say

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because they have hundreds of millions of people that follow it."

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If that doesn't happen, then I think

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certain acts of civil disobedience would be necessary.

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(Interviewer#1) They are happening now. - There are, but on a global scale

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not country specific. Civil disobedience on a global scale that

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if any actions are taken, they are presented globally.

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I think one action like that to show that there was a power to do so

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would rattle the system to such an effect

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that I think it could be very, very positive to get people

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to finally want to listen to what we have to say, in power.

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(Interviewer#1) But you take a look at all the austerity measures

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that happened in Europe this past summer

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and you see the protests in England and in Greece

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and you see all that, and you see it in the media

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the images of the firebombing from the police and the students

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just the street violence that's occurring

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at an alarming rate all through Europe... - Absolutely.

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- And nothing is being done. - True. - Nobody cares.

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People look at the images, and they don't see that it's a problem.

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- They are getting used to it; they are getting numb to this.

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What happens in society as the breakdown occurs

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is people just start to say "Oh, that's the way it is."

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They just say "That's the way it is that we have protests

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or crime. That's the way it is that we have poverty."

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And then generation after generation more "that's the way it is"

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and everyone slowly accepts it and eventually

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you have four or five, six billion people, many decades from now, starving

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and they'll just say "Oh, it's our natural resources;

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we don't have enough resources."

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That's their conditioning to believe and that's the way it is.

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So I don't advocate protest at all.

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I don't believe in war protest in a direct sense.

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I think it does something; I don't put it down

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but I advocate actual action, so you're not going to see

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the Zeitgeist Movement with signs held up in front of Congress

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or anywhere in any country. That's not the point.

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The point is, to actually, if there is a need

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to actually do something that causes an act.

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So to give a hypothetical, which I'm not advocating by the way

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to show the power of critical mass

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if 50% of the US population decided not to pay income taxes

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there's no way the US government can prosecute all of these people.

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(Int#1) I completely agree and I haven't paid income taxes in 10 years.

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- So point being once the masses come together

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and the strategy of divide and conquer is finally nullified

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which has been with us for centuries and centuries

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that's how you control people: divide them.

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Once the artificial boundaries are overridden

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by this core necessity of life

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the life ground necessity that is talked about

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life value analysis that John McMurtry describes

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which is essentially implying exactly what the Venus Project is about

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then people will come together and realize that we have to work

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to preserve resources. We have to work to create a stable environment

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for the benefit of everyone. We have to work to create equality

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because of the evidence I've shown by Richard Wilkinson:

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a stratified, divided society is one of the most unhealthy societies

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you can possibly have and causes a vast spectrum of disease and illness.

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It's scientifically proven in that sense

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social science. I'm not going to say it's a technical science

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but right now all stratified societies

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the more stratified, the worst their health is overall

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and that is something that has to be recognized.

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We can't have a society that is so unhealthy when we know it's unhealthy

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and hopefully people will begin to understand that and want to work

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towards something that actually is in line with nature

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and in line with what it takes to actually have a healthy society.

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(Interviewer#2) As far as moving steps forward...

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The whole design of the city as it's presented seems really...

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...worthwhile but also perhaps expensive

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in the first iteration, in transition from what we've got now into...

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It'll be one thing once there are 50 of those cities

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and people are living in a different mind-set and in a different system

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for those to regenerate is one thing. How do you get the first one?

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But what can people start doing so it's not purely ideas but practice

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because at a local level what people respond to is a better option

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an actual better option they experience as a better experience.

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You win over that many more people because...

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It might not be the full city the first time.

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It might be aspects of it... at a community level to build towards...

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I'll wait until the camera's in. I'll respond

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and I'll tell Jacque the question and he can respond as well.

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- We're ready to go. - OK. With respect to what communities

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can do to try to inch towards this type of environment

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especially with respect to the city systems

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which are an intricate part to... I mean you can...

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The depiction of the city system is only one depiction

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and I think Jacque Fresco would point out, but it's logical.

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And it just shows what you would do to make

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the most efficient, energy efficient, ease of transport.

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You make things localized. These are very common things

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and yes, I do believe that people can do this on a local level

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on a low-fi way. That's the term I use, "low-fi"

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as opposed to the hi-fi technical stuff that we point out.

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But it doesn't create the real resolution of applying technology

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in the highest order. That's all that has to be kept in mind

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and when it comes to money...

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You know, Jacque, people always ask

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how much will it cost to build your city.

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What do you say when they ask you that question in the sense of

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what's relevance of cost. Is it relevant to cost?

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- No, it's not. Do we have the resources to do it?

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I mean the physical resources like trucks

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to deliver materials: concrete, steel...

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We have more than enough resources

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but we don't have enough money to do it.

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So if a country goes broke

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as long as they have arable land and factories

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the factories close because people don't have money to buy anything

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and then the factories are taken over by local governments

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because people don't pay taxes on the physical equipment.

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So what happens? You get a lot of confusion, and

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if people have information before the breakdown, they know what to do.

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During the breakdown, they riot, break windows...

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This is normal for people

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that can't eat, do not get enough funding

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from the government to buy food. They will riot.

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The government will use the army, the navy

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the National Guard to put down the riots.

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And since I feel most riots

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will be committed by younger people, so they will make new laws:

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Everybody has to be in the house by nine o'clock.

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Do you understand me? That's what governments always do.

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It has nothing to do with reason or logic.

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It has to do with a collapsing system.

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Now even the collapsing system...

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The Chevy company could not compete with the Japanese companies.

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So they... bailed them out.

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Bailing them out does not mean sustainability.

245
00:13:14,436 --> 00:13:18,245
If you bail out a company and they can't turn out a better car

246
00:13:18,389 --> 00:13:23,611
an electrical car, better than the Japanese, they won't survive.

247
00:13:24,193 --> 00:13:26,174
And if they don't survive

248
00:13:26,311 --> 00:13:29,625
the company falls into the hands of the government.

249
00:13:29,794 --> 00:13:32,349
The government doesn't know how to use those companies

250
00:13:32,493 --> 00:13:35,142
so you have a lot of riots, confusion.

251
00:13:35,286 --> 00:13:39,908
And during the change, many new systems will not work

252
00:13:40,488 --> 00:13:42,634
and they'll blame the new system.

253
00:13:42,778 --> 00:13:45,320
And the public doesn't know which way to go

254
00:13:45,464 --> 00:13:48,724
so you have what they call "social chaos".

255
00:13:49,443 --> 00:13:53,892
In order to put down social chaos, you have to use the army, the navy

256
00:13:54,030 --> 00:13:58,627
or the National Guard to put down the chaos. That's called fascism.

257
00:13:59,017 --> 00:14:02,996
But if you can't pay people, if you can't pay them a wage

258
00:14:03,140 --> 00:14:05,821
which the government won't have the money to do...

259
00:14:05,965 --> 00:14:08,464
See, if I were a Senator, I would immediately

260
00:14:08,608 --> 00:14:11,873
cut my salary in half to show that I care.

261
00:14:12,017 --> 00:14:15,784
I haven't heard that yet. I haven't heard the President say:

262
00:14:15,928 --> 00:14:18,614
"I've got enough to live on. I don't want any salary.

263
00:14:18,756 --> 00:14:22,349
Let it go to help people." And people would identify with him.

264
00:14:22,492 --> 00:14:27,593
The banks do not think that way. Most businesses think in terms of profit;

265
00:14:27,737 --> 00:14:31,334
otherwise, they wouldn't outsource. Do you understand what I mean?

266
00:14:31,473 --> 00:14:33,704
If they cared for the American people...

267
00:14:33,841 --> 00:14:37,424
So what they do, they ask people to join the armed services

268
00:14:37,568 --> 00:14:42,775
as loyalty, although they'll get a minimum wage and food and clothing.

269
00:14:43,312 --> 00:14:48,273
They will try to get larger armies to maintain control of people.

270
00:14:48,542 --> 00:14:51,999
But in the meantime, in Europe, they will respond faster;

271
00:14:52,299 --> 00:14:55,352
I mean because they're having a harder time than we are.

272
00:14:55,699 --> 00:14:57,985
So nations will be fighting each other.

273
00:14:58,211 --> 00:15:01,355
The majority and minority people

274
00:15:01,493 --> 00:15:05,687
that are exploited most by this system will be the most active.

275
00:15:06,313 --> 00:15:09,670
It's not going to be smooth. I always said the transition

276
00:15:09,814 --> 00:15:12,646
will be the most painful thing up ahead

277
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:16,627
because just fighting for women's rights took a lot of battles

278
00:15:16,780 --> 00:15:20,556
or giving them the right to vote or getting rid of child labor

279
00:15:20,769 --> 00:15:23,662
in factories. That took a long time.

280
00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:26,405
And when you have children working for you

281
00:15:26,549 --> 00:15:28,762
you can maintain the competitive edge.

282
00:15:28,904 --> 00:15:32,830
If you have to pay a higher salary, you can't maintain the competitive edge.

283
00:15:32,974 --> 00:15:36,399
So if you free children, the factory goes broke

284
00:15:36,548 --> 00:15:38,849
because they can't maintain the competitive edge.

285
00:15:39,106 --> 00:15:42,440
All that industries want to do is contain

286
00:15:42,997 --> 00:15:45,384
and maintain the competitive edge.

287
00:15:45,522 --> 00:15:48,875
And if they can't do that, they will use the army and navy.

288
00:15:49,012 --> 00:15:52,683
They control the army and navy. Not the wealthy people.

289
00:15:52,827 --> 00:15:57,753
- Unfortunately, people aren't wise enough intellectually or emotionally

290
00:15:57,897 --> 00:16:00,850
to sit back and look at society and say:

291
00:16:01,129 --> 00:16:04,291
"What's wrong, where do we need to go in order to

292
00:16:04,610 --> 00:16:07,939
maintain a civilization and a future for us?"

293
00:16:08,327 --> 00:16:12,085
We feel it will take the breakdown as we talked about

294
00:16:12,235 --> 00:16:17,000
and people losing their jobs, losing confidence in their elected leaders

295
00:16:17,288 --> 00:16:20,792
and losing their homes before they'll start to look around

296
00:16:20,938 --> 00:16:23,203
and say "Where do we go? What do we do?"

297
00:16:23,340 --> 00:16:26,927
And even then, they won't know unless we have enough information

298
00:16:27,065 --> 00:16:29,623
out there to point this direction

299
00:16:29,761 --> 00:16:31,833
to point this direction out to them

300
00:16:31,977 --> 00:16:35,354
because there really are no viable alternatives out there.

301
00:16:35,491 --> 00:16:38,233
It's back to God

302
00:16:38,395 --> 00:16:43,244
or back to the good old days or law, civil law...

303
00:16:45,061 --> 00:16:48,711
So the job now, it's really critical

304
00:16:48,855 --> 00:16:51,617
to get this information out there while we still can.

305
00:16:51,754 --> 00:16:54,322
- I'd just add one more thing

306
00:16:54,466 --> 00:16:56,893
someone brought this up last night and it's completely in line

307
00:16:57,037 --> 00:17:00,432
with what you're describing, but it's another variation is that Earthships

308
00:17:00,576 --> 00:17:05,027
transition towns... these community things...

309
00:17:05,324 --> 00:17:09,442
These might be needed in a very short term sense as things start

310
00:17:09,585 --> 00:17:11,651
to break down. (Int#2) They're not called transition towns.

311
00:17:11,792 --> 00:17:15,350
- Exactly, which I have no disrespect for, but they're not a solution.

312
00:17:15,507 --> 00:17:17,953
They might probably recognize that... (Int#2) A short-term solution...

313
00:17:18,097 --> 00:17:20,474
- A short-term solution, but what's going to happen is:

314
00:17:20,611 --> 00:17:23,971
say we all got together and we started a nice community somewhere.

315
00:17:24,131 --> 00:17:26,446
Say... I don't know...the number doesn't even matter

316
00:17:26,611 --> 00:17:29,657
And it's outside the city of New York, say...

317
00:17:29,807 --> 00:17:33,086
-Sure, and things start to break down and we're doing great.

318
00:17:33,273 --> 00:17:36,634
We've got our food grown, we're living decent...

319
00:17:36,778 --> 00:17:39,681
You know what's going to happen? Those people that are starving

320
00:17:39,825 --> 00:17:43,270
and displaced will come straight for whatever is working.

321
00:17:43,414 --> 00:17:46,430
And that's just a natural tendency of any organism that's starving.

322
00:17:46,586 --> 00:17:49,738
They'll do whatever they can, so unless you want to have men

323
00:17:49,900 --> 00:17:52,887
with automatic weapons at your gates...

324
00:17:53,169 --> 00:17:55,299
So it's important that people not try to find intermediate

325
00:17:55,449 --> 00:17:58,040
patchwork solutions. We don't have time for that.

326
00:17:59,090 --> 00:18:02,087
I have friends that are doing it right now. They're going to places

327
00:18:02,229 --> 00:18:04,306
and they're growing their own food because they're so tired

328
00:18:04,444 --> 00:18:07,072
of being poisoned by industry, and they understand what's happening.

329
00:18:07,228 --> 00:18:09,656
But I try to explain to them that it's not the solution.

330
00:18:09,793 --> 00:18:13,627
We have to work together. There's nowhere to hide, in other words.

331
00:18:14,211 --> 00:18:16,673
(Interviewer#1) I think that's sort of how I feel.

332
00:18:16,817 --> 00:18:19,773
I'm kind of caught in the middle, you know. - Sure.

333
00:18:19,917 --> 00:18:22,037
- I could at anytime drop off the grid, you know.

334
00:18:22,177 --> 00:18:25,830
I can grow potatoes in my house plants. I know how to do it.

335
00:18:26,024 --> 00:18:28,122
I know how to remediate any kind of parasites...

336
00:18:28,260 --> 00:18:30,627
- That's good information to have. I certainly don't put any of that down

337
00:18:30,955 --> 00:18:34,728
but if we want to change, we have to change the society.

338
00:18:34,872 --> 00:18:38,546
There's no way around it, especially with the growing population.

339
00:18:38,733 --> 00:18:40,981
I couldn't sit back, say in my own little community village

340
00:18:41,125 --> 00:18:43,906
and just watch the death of billions of people

341
00:18:44,056 --> 00:18:47,379
which I am not saying is going to happen, but it's already slowly happening.

342
00:18:47,536 --> 00:18:51,374
And it can only get worse based on the financial outlook and everything

343
00:18:51,518 --> 00:18:54,831
that's happening with the scarcity that's being generated by this system.

344
00:18:55,031 --> 00:18:58,211
(Interviewer#1) How optimistic are you that we can do this?

345
00:18:58,837 --> 00:19:01,704
- It depends on how you define optimism. I think as Jacque and Roxanne

346
00:19:01,848 --> 00:19:04,897
just pointed out, there's going to be a tremendous amount of suffering

347
00:19:05,038 --> 00:19:09,433
because, unfortunately, people are not really rational in any direct way.

348
00:19:09,577 --> 00:19:13,567
They have to feel the problem. They have to be hit with something.

349
00:19:14,149 --> 00:19:17,233
You can't just tell somebody that this is happening. And believe me

350
00:19:17,368 --> 00:19:20,899
out of all the work I've done for the past few years, and the things I bring up

351
00:19:21,049 --> 00:19:24,447
you can't rationalize with somebody whose emotional identification

352
00:19:24,585 --> 00:19:28,976
is so strong, with whatever idea that is fallacious.

353
00:19:29,597 --> 00:19:33,082
You can't... You have to wait for them to experience the problem.

354
00:19:33,851 --> 00:19:36,924
(Interviewer#1) And what if they don't... because we're so far gone.

355
00:19:37,137 --> 00:19:40,839
- I think eventually they will though. (Int#2) This is the question

356
00:19:42,479 --> 00:19:45,437
I think, and it sounds like from something you said last night

357
00:19:45,575 --> 00:19:49,535
maybe you also think this way. It's going to go one of two ways:

358
00:19:49,672 --> 00:19:53,009
It's either going to completely collapse on its own

359
00:19:53,310 --> 00:19:56,572
the thing, the system. - I can clarify that...

360
00:19:56,722 --> 00:20:00,575
- It's been happening for a long time. (Int#2) I guess what I'm saying is:

361
00:20:00,719 --> 00:20:03,442
Will people do something before that in preparation

362
00:20:03,580 --> 00:20:05,810
or will it just happen, and then they're just all going to be standing...

363
00:20:05,954 --> 00:20:08,034
- Most people are not going to have anything. (Int#2) Most people

364
00:20:08,172 --> 00:20:12,099
are not going to do anything. - I can refer to the last depression

365
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:16,785
the '29 crash. I remember that wealthy people

366
00:20:16,929 --> 00:20:20,128
that had yachts, had their yachts stacked with food.

367
00:20:20,272 --> 00:20:22,904
They were ready to leave the country.

368
00:20:23,048 --> 00:20:26,349
If they succeeded, pirates would form

369
00:20:26,499 --> 00:20:29,402
of other people and they take their yachts away from them.

370
00:20:29,546 --> 00:20:33,373
You can't live to yourself anymore. Only they don't realize it.

371
00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:36,079
Even though they have guns on the boat

372
00:20:36,211 --> 00:20:40,139
once that happens, piracy, it's very hard to control.

373
00:20:40,597 --> 00:20:44,393
You generate thousands of people forming groups

374
00:20:44,533 --> 00:20:49,517
invading coop communities that don't want anything to do with the system.

375
00:20:49,745 --> 00:20:54,455
And they start coop growth and they're eating, so they will invade them.

376
00:20:54,627 --> 00:20:58,255
If you have your own little farm, and you say "Well, the hell with people!

377
00:20:58,392 --> 00:21:02,079
I'm growing my own chickens. I'm raising food for my family."

378
00:21:02,223 --> 00:21:06,025
They will invade your farms. You can't live to yourself anymore.

379
00:21:06,578 --> 00:21:09,062
But knowing that will not cause people

380
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,806
to come around and say "That's logical and reasonable."

381
00:21:11,943 --> 00:21:14,978
People are neither logical nor reasonable.

382
00:21:15,179 --> 00:21:19,471
They'll kill each other, take what they can and form lots of gangs.

383
00:21:19,827 --> 00:21:24,017
I don't know whether we'll ever see the Venus Project. I don't know that.

384
00:21:24,249 --> 00:21:27,569
It depends on how many people can identify with it.

385
00:21:27,719 --> 00:21:30,869
They look to me and say "Jacque, when will you build these new cities?

386
00:21:31,013 --> 00:21:35,233
I'd like to move in." I said "It depends on what you do and other people."

387
00:21:35,384 --> 00:21:38,924
We have no power. We can only point to a direction.

388
00:21:39,362 --> 00:21:43,899
The only direction that'll save society, as I understand it

389
00:21:44,049 --> 00:21:47,067
is to share all the earth's resources

390
00:21:47,210 --> 00:21:51,031
to remove all the artificial boundaries that separate people

391
00:21:51,464 --> 00:21:55,114
and to bring in a Resource-Based Economy

392
00:21:55,252 --> 00:21:59,802
where we share resources. If this comes about...

393
00:21:59,946 --> 00:22:04,388
or I can address the United Nations and point these things out.

394
00:22:04,532 --> 00:22:08,549
They're trying to set up a meeting to do that. If I can point out

395
00:22:08,689 --> 00:22:12,206
if the nations join together now, before the collapse

396
00:22:12,346 --> 00:22:15,580
the severe collapse, join together, share resources

397
00:22:15,721 --> 00:22:19,189
they can maintain a degree of sustainability.

398
00:22:19,436 --> 00:22:23,442
When other people use the word "sustainability", I say "For whom?

399
00:22:23,583 --> 00:22:27,247
The banks? Wall Street? Who do you want to sustain?

400
00:22:27,388 --> 00:22:30,291
If you want to sustain everybody, they're not interested."

401
00:22:30,431 --> 00:22:35,192
So they control the media, they control the press, the newspapers...

402
00:22:35,333 --> 00:22:38,375
(Interviewer#1) That's changing a lot though.

403
00:22:39,042 --> 00:22:43,219
- Sure, it is, we can see that. (Int #1) I mean they're also going to stop it.

404
00:22:43,665 --> 00:22:48,631
And I know this, I know this for a fact. They're going to shut it down.

405
00:22:49,213 --> 00:22:52,211
What we do... They're not psyched. What he does...

406
00:22:52,340 --> 00:22:57,265
They are not psyched that people are aware. You know people who are...

407
00:22:57,406 --> 00:23:01,088
- Oh, believe me, I completely understand... (Int. #1) This shit's got to go!

408
00:23:01,228 --> 00:23:03,243
- Think about the period like when you grew up, Jacque

409
00:23:03,368 --> 00:23:07,471
when all you ever got was a newspaper about how the world worked.

410
00:23:07,631 --> 00:23:11,915
Complete control of the medias. You had no outlet, even no television.

411
00:23:12,526 --> 00:23:15,037
We have a very different world

412
00:23:15,479 --> 00:23:18,681
and they've been doing their best to figure out how to try and continue

413
00:23:18,822 --> 00:23:21,291
their positions of control, just as any government does.

414
00:23:21,442 --> 00:23:23,753
(Interviewer #1) Well, I mean their neutrality will go.

415
00:23:23,894 --> 00:23:26,107
- We'll see what happens.The only problem with that

416
00:23:26,248 --> 00:23:29,221
is that there's so much money being made on the Internet right now.

417
00:23:29,362 --> 00:23:32,104
It interferes with commerce. (Int#1) And this is exactly why

418
00:23:32,245 --> 00:23:34,451
somebody like Murdoch and Jobs

419
00:23:34,714 --> 00:23:38,603
have decided to create their own daily-paper. - Sure.

420
00:23:38,743 --> 00:23:41,046
(Interviewer #1) This is exactly why this is happening.

421
00:23:41,187 --> 00:23:46,036
There's no other reason for the merger of these two assholes, really.

422
00:23:46,185 --> 00:23:48,508
- One thing I want to comment, I'm sorry to interrupt you

423
00:23:48,659 --> 00:23:51,856
on the point of breakdown before I forget, is that a lot of people say:

424
00:23:51,997 --> 00:23:54,427
"Oh, well when is the breakdown going to occur?" I'm like:

425
00:23:54,567 --> 00:23:57,609
"You've been living through the breakdown for at least 40 years

426
00:23:57,748 --> 00:24:02,289
the onslaught of more diseases, of more poverty, of more..."

427
00:24:02,505 --> 00:24:05,784
Well, not necessarily more wars per se

428
00:24:05,916 --> 00:24:08,420
but the anticipation of many more wars

429
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,461
the onslaught of resource depletion, the onslaught of...

430
00:24:12,602 --> 00:24:16,403
virtually everything, every life support system going into decline.

431
00:24:16,647 --> 00:24:19,108
This is what it is, and people just keep saying to themselves

432
00:24:19,249 --> 00:24:21,898
as I've said "That's the way it is."

433
00:24:22,025 --> 00:24:24,032
We have more starving people on the planet than ever before

434
00:24:24,138 --> 00:24:26,627
and that's only going to get worse. It can't possibly get better.

435
00:24:26,849 --> 00:24:29,043
With what's happening right now, there's more debt.

436
00:24:29,191 --> 00:24:31,733
The only thing that has magnified this now is the debt collapse.

437
00:24:31,883 --> 00:24:35,118
That's really because it brings it to an optimized focus

438
00:24:35,262 --> 00:24:37,914
that the public still never would have thought of prior.

439
00:24:38,051 --> 00:24:40,849
And most people today still think that we're going to recover.

440
00:24:40,993 --> 00:24:44,004
There isn't going to be an economic recovery from this point on

441
00:24:44,148 --> 00:24:47,081
if the monetary system game is adhered to.

442
00:24:47,238 --> 00:24:50,022
And that's what people need to understand... (Int#1) According to America...

443
00:24:50,172 --> 00:24:54,232
- Well, globally though. If the monetary system of the global market

444
00:24:54,370 --> 00:24:57,074
which is what it is... I mean, the American philosophy

445
00:24:57,212 --> 00:25:00,996
and the virus of the cancer of capitalism have permeated the entire world.

446
00:25:01,133 --> 00:25:03,892
There's no one that can escape. Those that even claim to be socialist

447
00:25:04,030 --> 00:25:07,206
are just capitalist. I mean to provide, say, free education:

448
00:25:07,356 --> 00:25:10,122
someone's paying for it. It's still being paid for.

449
00:25:10,266 --> 00:25:14,560
There's still money in every facet of motivation in the system.

450
00:25:14,928 --> 00:25:17,506
And, one small aside, that I want to just throw out there

451
00:25:17,910 --> 00:25:20,644
and this notion of sustainability: I read a book recently

452
00:25:20,788 --> 00:25:24,016
and they use the term "sustainable business".

453
00:25:24,979 --> 00:25:27,345
And it was the most comedic thing I've ever heard.

454
00:25:27,476 --> 00:25:30,993
It was written by this very prominent wealthy environmentalist

455
00:25:31,143 --> 00:25:35,031
and he was trying to explain how business can be sustainable.

456
00:25:35,231 --> 00:25:39,767
How can you possibly have sustainability in a paradigm, in an approach

457
00:25:39,911 --> 00:25:43,007
where you have organizations in competition with each other

458
00:25:43,144 --> 00:25:45,684
that can't produce anything of high quality because of the need

459
00:25:45,826 --> 00:25:49,882
to have cost efficiency and preserve market share and cut corners at all times?

460
00:25:50,019 --> 00:25:52,617
How can you have sustainability when all industries are all for themselves

461
00:25:52,761 --> 00:25:55,901
and they're only worried about the resources and everything that relates to them

462
00:25:56,043 --> 00:25:58,852
and they have no symbiotic or synergistic relationship to anything else?

463
00:25:59,090 --> 00:26:01,283
How can you have sustainability when they're obviously polluting

464
00:26:01,427 --> 00:26:03,457
and keep polluting on some level or another

465
00:26:03,588 --> 00:26:07,715
because it's framed in the network, excuse me, it's framed in the context

466
00:26:07,863 --> 00:26:11,716
of the establishment, which means they have to cut costs. Excuse me...

467
00:26:11,854 --> 00:26:14,989
framed in the context of the monetary system when they have to cut costs;

468
00:26:15,126 --> 00:26:17,522
so they can't possibly have output of efficiency, meaning:

469
00:26:17,660 --> 00:26:21,032
You have to have landfills. No one can afford proper disposal.

470
00:26:21,284 --> 00:26:24,015
No one can afford to do all the things that are really necessary.

471
00:26:24,156 --> 00:26:27,073
No one can care about having sustainable goods

472
00:26:27,217 --> 00:26:29,791
nor is it possible to have sustainable goods

473
00:26:29,935 --> 00:26:32,605
in order to keep the consumption going. So I laughed comedically

474
00:26:32,749 --> 00:26:36,745
when I was reading this entire book on sustainable business

475
00:26:36,889 --> 00:26:39,947
because it's completely relative. They make it a little bit more sustainable.

476
00:26:40,084 --> 00:26:43,330
They say "Oh, we're going to recycle a few more things."

477
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,334
His name is Hawken, Paul Hawken.

478
00:26:46,471 --> 00:26:50,183
He's a very famous economist/ecologist. "Economist" might not be

479
00:26:50,327 --> 00:26:52,499
the right word, and I have a great deal of respect for him

480
00:26:52,643 --> 00:26:55,793
but he's trapped in the system. He's also well-to-do in the system

481
00:26:55,931 --> 00:26:59,424
like many different people that have these types of opinions.

482
00:26:59,593 --> 00:27:01,641
I have a great deal of respect for many different people out there

483
00:27:01,772 --> 00:27:05,413
and I'm not going to actually name any names because it might be misconstrued

484
00:27:05,551 --> 00:27:07,964
but they don't go far enough. A lot of people that are praised

485
00:27:08,108 --> 00:27:10,712
as activists in ecology...

486
00:27:11,288 --> 00:27:14,266
They go just to the edge of the monetary system

487
00:27:14,495 --> 00:27:17,495
but they're so indoctrinated they think the monetary system is a given.

488
00:27:17,632 --> 00:27:20,104
It's presupposed, religiously ordained...

489
00:27:22,888 --> 00:27:25,150
(Int#2) And they're literally invested in it.

490
00:27:25,294 --> 00:27:27,296
- ...but that doesn't mean that they can't acknowledge it.

491
00:27:27,428 --> 00:27:29,274
Anyone has to make money in this system, but...

492
00:27:29,411 --> 00:27:32,456
(Int #1) Take someone like Dickson Despommier who you featured in your film.

493
00:27:32,606 --> 00:27:36,627
"Vertical Farming". He's a hero of mine. I love him. I think he's great.

494
00:27:37,223 --> 00:27:40,538
I've had many exchanges with him

495
00:27:40,682 --> 00:27:44,900
and he's really very inspiring, and the work that he does...

496
00:27:45,468 --> 00:27:47,978
What he's done for a lifetime, dedicating his life

497
00:27:48,117 --> 00:27:52,253
to the concept of vertical farming. - Absolutely, it's very important.

498
00:27:52,465 --> 00:27:55,368
(Interviewer #1) But all he's doing, at every TED conference I see him

499
00:27:55,519 --> 00:27:57,900
and I go to every single TED conference there is

500
00:27:58,038 --> 00:28:00,866
and at every TED conference all he's really looking for is an investor.

501
00:28:01,010 --> 00:28:03,431
And all he really wants is an investor to say "Listen

502
00:28:03,571 --> 00:28:06,605
let's convert Newark, the building in Newark

503
00:28:06,750 --> 00:28:09,644
let's try this." But you know, he's not trying to profit.

504
00:28:09,788 --> 00:28:13,612
He is trying to feed the world. - I attempted to interview him.

505
00:28:13,756 --> 00:28:16,842
You're speaking of the individual of Columbia, right? -Dickson.

506
00:28:16,979 --> 00:28:18,984
I tried to interview him and he said "I'm sorry, I can't do

507
00:28:19,090 --> 00:28:21,833
any video interviews, film interviews, because Sting

508
00:28:21,977 --> 00:28:25,060
has the right for all my video interviews."

509
00:28:25,198 --> 00:28:28,754
- It's true. - I thought to myself... I don't know if that's good or bad.

510
00:28:28,898 --> 00:28:31,800
I have no idea... (Int #1) It's bad. He had to take the money from Sting

511
00:28:31,938 --> 00:28:35,279
because he needed to continue doing his work. Funding was tough...

512
00:28:35,429 --> 00:28:37,435
- I don't put him down for that, but It just goes to show

513
00:28:37,554 --> 00:28:41,441
the nature of this system and how it automatically blocks everything.

514
00:28:41,591 --> 00:28:45,683
(Int#1) He'll meet you face to face. - Sure. He seems like a very nice guy.

515
00:28:45,820 --> 00:28:48,510
(Int#1) The nicest guy and really a great thinker

516
00:28:48,654 --> 00:28:53,730
but at some point, in his research years, he hit a wall.

517
00:28:54,059 --> 00:28:57,694
And he had to keep going and then there were these people who were...

518
00:28:58,322 --> 00:29:00,975
I mean Sting is committed to... - Sure.

519
00:29:01,119 --> 00:29:03,342
I'm not putting down any of the characters. I'm just saying that

520
00:29:03,486 --> 00:29:06,270
it's unfortunate that the word can't continue to be spread.

521
00:29:06,414 --> 00:29:09,276
I could have had his stuff exposed to millions and millions of people.

522
00:29:09,419 --> 00:29:12,700
I sort of do, but if he was in it it would be a little more powerful.

523
00:29:12,844 --> 00:29:15,199
To know that we could produce organic...

524
00:29:15,342 --> 00:29:18,115
(Int#1) Again, it's about joining forces.

525
00:29:18,259 --> 00:29:20,561
It's about inclusivity and not exclusivity. - Exactly.

526
00:29:20,705 --> 00:29:25,424
The monetary system confirms exclusivity... (Int #2) And competitiveness.

527
00:29:25,568 --> 00:29:29,506
- Absolutely. And why Sting would restrict something like that is also problematic.

528
00:29:29,644 --> 00:29:33,627
(Int #1) That's Sting's ego. It's like Sting's battalion of managers...

529
00:29:34,113 --> 00:29:37,119
I don't mind. - I'm just kidding. - I'm saying this...

530
00:29:41,262 --> 00:29:43,906
I don't put down anyone in the sense that I understand the way

531
00:29:44,043 --> 00:29:46,843
people operate in this system. Everyone does what they have to do

532
00:29:46,987 --> 00:29:50,888
and I look at even the most vile company like Monsanto

533
00:29:51,201 --> 00:29:55,115
as, in fact, just another example of the matter of degree

534
00:29:55,252 --> 00:29:58,986
of what this system creates. That's all they are. It's just a matter of degree.

535
00:29:59,136 --> 00:30:02,341
So I try to convince people that I talk to that try to...

536
00:30:02,484 --> 00:30:04,998
They hone in on singular corporations...And by the way I think

537
00:30:05,158 --> 00:30:07,130
that you need to be activist oriented against these...

538
00:30:07,270 --> 00:30:09,249
- I think that all these corporations should be targets...

539
00:30:09,390 --> 00:30:12,559
- Absolutely (Int #1) They should not be spared.

540
00:30:13,649 --> 00:30:15,816
The only problem is that you have to make sure

541
00:30:15,957 --> 00:30:18,253
that the larger order point is always made

542
00:30:18,394 --> 00:30:21,142
that these are products of a system. (Int#2) They are symptoms.

543
00:30:21,283 --> 00:30:23,865
- Symptoms, exactly. So that's what I'd say about that.

544
00:30:24,006 --> 00:30:27,612
- It's an endless battle when you pick out corporations like that

545
00:30:27,753 --> 00:30:31,105
and continuously try and stop that.

546
00:30:31,274 --> 00:30:34,077
You might get some legislation through;

547
00:30:34,218 --> 00:30:37,672
and then, when the next government comes in it'll revert right back.

548
00:30:37,812 --> 00:30:41,251
That's really not the solution to the problems.

549
00:30:41,381 --> 00:30:47,080
We really need to advocate a total world, global Resource-Based Economy.

550
00:30:47,222 --> 00:30:49,508
And to the extent that we don't advocate that

551
00:30:49,644 --> 00:30:52,499
and work toward that, that will determine

552
00:30:52,639 --> 00:30:55,722
the amount of problems that we will have remaining.

553
00:30:55,858 --> 00:30:59,813
- When a few nations control most of the Earth's resources

554
00:30:59,981 --> 00:31:03,422
others will try to invade and get a piece of the cake...

555
00:31:03,553 --> 00:31:06,431
- Which is what's happening right now. - So you have no

556
00:31:06,582 --> 00:31:12,480
intelligent plans out there. The more intelligent, the higher the order of intelligence

557
00:31:12,621 --> 00:31:16,369
meaning better management of the Earth's resources

558
00:31:16,510 --> 00:31:20,317
the more difficult to reach people. People understand things like:

559
00:31:20,468 --> 00:31:23,885
"It's our country, right or wrong? Let's get out there and defend it!"

560
00:31:24,026 --> 00:31:26,748
They'll join with that. But people say to me:

561
00:31:26,889 --> 00:31:31,134
"Jacque, every time I ask you a question, I get a lecture, not an answer."

562
00:31:31,284 --> 00:31:34,263
Because there are no answers. There's no simple answer.

563
00:31:34,404 --> 00:31:39,019
It's very involved. And the average person is not equipped to handle that.

564
00:31:39,179 --> 00:31:42,034
That's why I keep saying there will be a lot of trouble ahead

565
00:31:42,175 --> 00:31:47,008
a lot of assassinations, wild people, groups breaking windows.

566
00:31:47,156 --> 00:31:51,903
They don't know what else to do. They don't know how to handle the problems.

567
00:31:52,063 --> 00:31:56,504
Like in the Arab world a guy might beat his wife three times a week

568
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,040
to a pulp, to get her to obey him. That's normal to that culture.

569
00:32:01,181 --> 00:32:06,092
They don't know anything else. Now, giving women equal rights is unthinkable

570
00:32:06,234 --> 00:32:09,079
in that type of culture. Do you understand?

571
00:32:09,223 --> 00:32:14,245
So you've got the scar tissue of hundreds of years in people.

572
00:32:14,558 --> 00:32:17,392
And you don't come out in one day "Oh! Here's the answer!"

573
00:32:17,536 --> 00:32:20,413
Even if it were the answer. If they don't understand it

574
00:32:20,522 --> 00:32:24,195
it's not the answer. What they do is the answer

575
00:32:24,486 --> 00:32:28,960
and if they kill each other, which is what I think they will do.

576
00:32:29,180 --> 00:32:32,741
And there may be few people that can escape the system.

577
00:32:32,879 --> 00:32:36,758
All I can talk about is what happened during the Depression.

578
00:32:36,902 --> 00:32:40,909
There were many men sleeping in the winter over gratings

579
00:32:41,369 --> 00:32:44,352
hundreds of them. And that bothered Al Capone

580
00:32:44,555 --> 00:32:47,412
and he opened the first soup kitchens. Did you know that?

581
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,645
...more than the federal government. Was he evil?

582
00:32:50,795 --> 00:32:53,748
...in some areas,yes, in other areas, no.

583
00:32:53,905 --> 00:32:56,704
So Al Capone started feeding people.

584
00:32:56,973 --> 00:33:00,120
And then the Italian Americans were feeding one another.

585
00:33:00,270 --> 00:33:02,950
And then the Jews pulled in, in their own corner.

586
00:33:03,094 --> 00:33:06,937
And the Irish were beaten up because during the potato famine

587
00:33:07,094 --> 00:33:09,644
a lot of Irish men came to America, and they worked

588
00:33:09,788 --> 00:33:12,684
for one half the amount what Americans would work for.

589
00:33:12,867 --> 00:33:14,992
So the Americans said "Those God damned Irish men!

590
00:33:15,117 --> 00:33:18,199
Let's beat them up, because they're taking our jobs away!"

591
00:33:18,349 --> 00:33:20,894
The whole reason for aberrant behavior

592
00:33:21,038 --> 00:33:23,954
is fear of scarcity or unemployment.

593
00:33:24,098 --> 00:33:27,828
During the Depression there was a factory that had a sign "Help Wanted".

594
00:33:28,072 --> 00:33:31,063
And I saw lines all around the block.

595
00:33:31,476 --> 00:33:34,477
And the guys would say "Hey, let's get rid of that fat Jew!

596
00:33:34,621 --> 00:33:38,062
Let's get rid of that Irish man! Let's get rid of that Arab!"

597
00:33:38,259 --> 00:33:41,438
But during the war, they wanted all the help they could get.

598
00:33:41,607 --> 00:33:45,467
They didn't care who was in line as long as there were jobs for everybody.

599
00:33:45,598 --> 00:33:47,998
So you're dealing with social chaos

600
00:33:48,142 --> 00:33:52,238
and there's no clean line that people will follow.

601
00:33:52,607 --> 00:33:57,638
So whatever happens is real. What you think should happen is unreal.

602
00:33:57,782 --> 00:34:01,162
And that's what people get disappointed in, not the world.

603
00:34:01,300 --> 00:34:05,221
Whatever the world does is real; whatever happens is real.

604
00:34:05,409 --> 00:34:08,224
What you think should have happened disappoints you.

605
00:34:08,387 --> 00:34:12,050
H.G. Wells, in his book "The Shape of Things to Come"...

606
00:34:12,201 --> 00:34:14,308
He died broken-hearted. He said:

607
00:34:14,439 --> 00:34:18,890
"The world should be so far along." He suffered from his own projections.

608
00:34:19,437 --> 00:34:22,728
The world will do what it does, not what Fresco thinks is right

609
00:34:22,875 --> 00:34:24,833
or Peter Joseph thinks is right.

610
00:34:24,977 --> 00:34:28,491
They will do whatever the hell they have to do to survive.

611
00:34:28,798 --> 00:34:33,206
Whether you'll see a saner world is highly improbable

612
00:34:33,457 --> 00:34:36,485
unless you begin to talk.

613
00:34:36,667 --> 00:34:39,006
All the people that come to these meetings, if they talk

614
00:34:39,131 --> 00:34:42,227
to other people and advise them in different directions

615
00:34:42,371 --> 00:34:45,262
bear with them, stay with them until they understand.

616
00:34:45,418 --> 00:34:47,819
If everybody works at it, the transition

617
00:34:47,963 --> 00:34:50,987
will be less painful, not eliminated.

618
00:34:51,439 --> 00:34:54,728
I'm sorry that I have this to say. I'd like to say:

619
00:34:54,904 --> 00:34:57,215
"I see glorious days ahead."

620
00:34:57,352 --> 00:35:00,830
That would please everybody, but it's not true.

621
00:35:01,412 --> 00:35:05,327
- I don't think it's so much we're optimistic or pessimistic.

622
00:35:05,489 --> 00:35:09,660
I think we're really scared shitless as to what's happening

623
00:35:10,098 --> 00:35:13,988
what's happening now and what the immediate future might bring.

624
00:35:14,228 --> 00:35:17,612
And we see a viable alternative

625
00:35:18,094 --> 00:35:21,235
that could eliminate a lot of suffering for a lot of people

626
00:35:21,380 --> 00:35:24,814
so we're advocating it and asking other people to look into it

627
00:35:24,959 --> 00:35:27,735
and learn it, and talk to others about it.

628
00:35:28,023 --> 00:35:30,902
And get the information out there any way we can: movies

629
00:35:31,052 --> 00:35:35,490
books, radios, Internet, while we still have the ability to do that.

630
00:35:36,505 --> 00:35:40,165
(Interviewer #1) Now, have you considered working with other movements?

631
00:35:41,674 --> 00:35:44,131
- Well, people ask that question...

632
00:35:46,055 --> 00:35:48,924
Well, the thing is, I have yet to meet a movement

633
00:35:49,074 --> 00:35:53,371
or an activist group that really identifies

634
00:35:53,515 --> 00:35:55,715
with the complete direction.

635
00:35:55,856 --> 00:35:58,817
And it's not to say that they are...

636
00:35:59,293 --> 00:36:02,538
Frankly, one attribute that any organization that...

637
00:36:02,681 --> 00:36:05,993
Excuse me, any organization I think could possibly come in line with this

638
00:36:06,136 --> 00:36:08,153
the one attribute they have to get definitively

639
00:36:08,279 --> 00:36:10,972
is the fact that the monetary system is the root of most of the problems

640
00:36:11,116 --> 00:36:14,400
if not all the problems that we generally face on a severe level.

641
00:36:14,556 --> 00:36:18,092
That is it. And no, you know, Greenpeace

642
00:36:18,236 --> 00:36:21,644
all the environmental organizations, they think

643
00:36:21,801 --> 00:36:24,725
that if they go after the corporations that they can influence...

644
00:36:24,875 --> 00:36:28,957
Even Wikileaks is an interesting example because they're exposing

645
00:36:29,094 --> 00:36:33,380
always exposing... I hate to say it and I said this last night:

646
00:36:33,843 --> 00:36:37,689
Months from now, no one will remember a damned thing.

647
00:36:37,839 --> 00:36:40,268
(Interviewer #1) That's not true. - Well, I think...

648
00:36:40,894 --> 00:36:43,847
If they remember it, it's not going to change a damn thing.

649
00:36:43,991 --> 00:36:46,867
(Int #1) It won't change anything but he will have left some sort of indelible...

650
00:36:47,018 --> 00:36:50,537
- Oh, I agree with that. Let me rephrase that. I forget to say "remember".

651
00:36:50,687 --> 00:36:53,707
There will be a fall of confidence on many different levels

652
00:36:53,851 --> 00:36:56,702
because of those releases which are viably so...

653
00:36:56,815 --> 00:37:00,403
But the general consciousness of the public, general awareness of the public

654
00:37:00,547 --> 00:37:03,035
it goes through them.

655
00:37:03,836 --> 00:37:07,111
Has there been any prosecutions because of that? Not that I've heard of.

656
00:37:07,252 --> 00:37:09,508
Has there been anything that has really culminated

657
00:37:09,654 --> 00:37:13,189
because of the really severe things that were revealed in these cables?

658
00:37:13,351 --> 00:37:16,139
(Int#1) The only prosecution has been the one of Bradley Manning. That is it.

659
00:37:16,277 --> 00:37:18,799
So if there is a prosecution, there is a young man

660
00:37:18,955 --> 00:37:21,629
in a 12 by 10 jail cell right now. - So, and my point is that

661
00:37:21,754 --> 00:37:25,702
the goal here is to provide a solution, not to talk about problems anymore.

662
00:37:25,852 --> 00:37:28,228
I spent that time in "Zeitgeist" and even "Zeitgeist Addendum".

663
00:37:28,372 --> 00:37:31,819
That's why I barely talk about... I bring it up like Wall Street and stuff

664
00:37:31,969 --> 00:37:35,450
but it's not focused on as though I'm trying like expose, expose, expose...

665
00:37:35,587 --> 00:37:37,637
I don't believe that's the route to... - (Int #1) But don't you think

666
00:37:37,788 --> 00:37:40,832
that in the grand cosmology of things, that we're all connected

667
00:37:40,976 --> 00:37:43,736
and that we all have our own part to play? - Of course...

668
00:37:43,874 --> 00:37:46,492
(Int#1) Set that puzzle, make it work? - By all means

669
00:37:46,629 --> 00:37:49,625
but I think my point is more of a central strategy

670
00:37:49,769 --> 00:37:53,313
an effective strategy and that is actually showing a new direction

671
00:37:53,450 --> 00:37:56,497
not advocating, not constantly exposing. So

672
00:37:56,654 --> 00:37:59,075
back to my point about activist groups and other organizations:

673
00:37:59,212 --> 00:38:02,629
They're constantly harping on what they think is right

674
00:38:02,767 --> 00:38:06,240
and what right or ethical, and what government "should do"

675
00:38:06,428 --> 00:38:09,775
in the sense that it's always contained within the system.

676
00:38:11,033 --> 00:38:14,839
What do they say about ecological organizations?

677
00:38:14,987 --> 00:38:17,430
We need to do this and this. We need the money to do it.

678
00:38:17,580 --> 00:38:19,966
And they look for money. And that's what everyone essentially does.

679
00:38:20,098 --> 00:38:23,609
We need more funding so we can fight these fish loitering ships

680
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,174
for Greenpeace. They frame everything in the system

681
00:38:26,313 --> 00:38:28,900
not knowing that the system itself is the problem. And what they also do

682
00:38:29,044 --> 00:38:31,430
is they create their own establishments. This is something else

683
00:38:31,574 --> 00:38:35,013
I ran into with contacts of many organizations that I won't name.

684
00:38:35,176 --> 00:38:40,150
They see what we advocate. They have thousands of employees

685
00:38:40,513 --> 00:38:42,802
pseudo-volunteer employees. They still get paid.

686
00:38:42,946 --> 00:38:45,405
Many of these organizations are non-profit and actually still get paid:

687
00:38:45,570 --> 00:38:49,581
Non-profit is just a subset of profit. It's just less profit, is all it really means.

688
00:38:49,889 --> 00:38:54,854
So they're in a world where they're surviving off of their activism.

689
00:38:55,092 --> 00:39:00,036
And that's a big problem. They have a career in fighting the problem

690
00:39:00,186 --> 00:39:02,738
and there are some radio talk show hosts that advocate things...

691
00:39:02,888 --> 00:39:05,552
(Interviewer #1) I mean, we're not even pretending. I'm surviving.

692
00:39:05,702 --> 00:39:08,580
- I just want to point that out for the sake of those that are listening

693
00:39:08,723 --> 00:39:11,998
that we create establishments, and the larger the establishment becomes

694
00:39:12,148 --> 00:39:15,111
such as the global warming establishment

695
00:39:15,355 --> 00:39:18,727
such as the cancer establishment. "Hum, let's resolve cancer!"

696
00:39:18,870 --> 00:39:21,994
You know how many trillions of dollars and how many thousands of people

697
00:39:22,137 --> 00:39:26,060
will be out of work if someone...and by the way, these resolutions do exist.

698
00:39:26,201 --> 00:39:28,539
I won't go into that. They've been around for decades

699
00:39:28,689 --> 00:39:30,981
but they're completely ignored and they're prosecuted

700
00:39:31,113 --> 00:39:35,361
and the doctors are... Anyway, it's a long tangent.

701
00:39:36,243 --> 00:39:40,735
Anything they can do to stop... Servicing problems is how things work

702
00:39:40,879 --> 00:39:43,780
and it goes for the activist community as well. So...

703
00:39:43,930 --> 00:39:46,794
these are the types of things that I hope if any group realizes that

704
00:39:46,945 --> 00:39:48,970
they say "We recognize the monetary system is the problem."

705
00:39:49,089 --> 00:39:51,419
By all means, they can come in. And, frankly, I hope

706
00:39:51,563 --> 00:39:53,586
they would just come in under the umbrella of the Zeitgeist Movement

707
00:39:53,723 --> 00:39:56,730
so they don't have to worry about these two different organizations

708
00:39:56,874 --> 00:39:59,246
and people getting confused by different names.

709
00:39:59,484 --> 00:40:02,667
I can easily make a list of organizations that are in harmony with us

710
00:40:02,811 --> 00:40:06,857
but within the movement. So you don't have this abstract partnership

711
00:40:07,007 --> 00:40:09,603
and all these different... It's an ego thing.

712
00:40:10,198 --> 00:40:12,272
There are people that have already broken away from the Venus Project

713
00:40:12,416 --> 00:40:14,831
and the movement because they have their own ego. They're like:

714
00:40:14,975 --> 00:40:17,543
"We're going to do our own thing. We don't like this aspect."

715
00:40:17,687 --> 00:40:22,654
It's so counterproductive; it's self-defeating.

716
00:40:22,804 --> 00:40:25,640
- That's goes back to the cultural aspect that's so hard to change.

717
00:40:25,796 --> 00:40:28,505
We're all conditioned to have that kind of ego mentality

718
00:40:28,649 --> 00:40:31,800
when we're pitted against each other for survival and we have to compete.

719
00:40:31,950 --> 00:40:36,021
It's only natural that everybody wants to glorify themselves

720
00:40:36,161 --> 00:40:39,358
or have their own independence and everything.

721
00:40:39,783 --> 00:40:42,063
- That's what's been reinforced in this system since the moment

722
00:40:42,207 --> 00:40:46,834
they're born. It's reinforced competition. It's a natural response

723
00:40:46,975 --> 00:40:51,017
in this system. It's not necessarily a human response.

724
00:40:51,167 --> 00:40:55,362
(Int#2) Some of our lessons may come from people...There are people on this earth

725
00:40:55,503 --> 00:40:59,692
that are just barely in this system; it does still exist.

726
00:40:59,953 --> 00:41:03,502
And so, it's not maybe that they have the entire program

727
00:41:03,643 --> 00:41:07,355
as far developed as what you're discussing.

728
00:41:07,492 --> 00:41:11,022
Let's say the Zapatistas, which are just people living in the jungle

729
00:41:11,166 --> 00:41:14,784
that don't want to hear about government systems

730
00:41:14,925 --> 00:41:17,475
they don't want to hear about money or about any of that shit.

731
00:41:17,625 --> 00:41:21,570
They just all want to go about their lives. They are remarkably participatory

732
00:41:21,714 --> 00:41:25,277
in their governmental thing or whatever.

733
00:41:28,503 --> 00:41:31,780
Versus in Argentina, when their economy went down...

734
00:41:31,918 --> 00:41:35,224
And there's a question about the degree of collapse, right?

735
00:41:35,361 --> 00:41:38,261
Because if it collapses somewhat, but a government

736
00:41:38,405 --> 00:41:41,752
can still pay its soldiers and its police, that's one thing.

737
00:41:41,896 --> 00:41:46,431
If it collapses more, when they cannot pay their policemen anymore

738
00:41:46,569 --> 00:41:49,800
and they cannot pay their soldiers anymore, this is something else.

739
00:41:49,944 --> 00:41:52,553
And you end up in a situation in Argentina where people

740
00:41:52,691 --> 00:41:57,257
were going back into the factories, and reopening them on their own

741
00:41:58,727 --> 00:42:01,333
just because it's like "There are resources all around me

742
00:42:01,464 --> 00:42:03,904
I'm going to go to work."

743
00:42:04,062 --> 00:42:08,374
And they get into fights with the guy who thinks he owns the place

744
00:42:08,511 --> 00:42:12,038
from before or whatever. But sometimes these...

745
00:42:12,713 --> 00:42:16,964
I think at an individual level in some of these other more far...

746
00:42:17,108 --> 00:42:19,994
I mean I don't know how far-flung Argentina is per say;

747
00:42:20,156 --> 00:42:22,861
but it's not New York City anyway and it's not London.

748
00:42:23,154 --> 00:42:26,927
And they're coming from a different social upbringing

749
00:42:27,077 --> 00:42:29,800
a different culture... - Non materialistic. - Less...

750
00:42:29,944 --> 00:42:32,839
let's says less materialistic. - (Int#1) I wouldn't say that about Argentina.

751
00:42:32,984 --> 00:42:35,412
- I don't know about Argentina, but another example:

752
00:42:35,550 --> 00:42:39,602
There are also interesting examples in the Soviet Union when it collapsed

753
00:42:39,752 --> 00:42:43,506
where factories started these really elaborate barter chains

754
00:42:43,656 --> 00:42:46,135
because they didn't know what else to do. So, one factory

755
00:42:46,275 --> 00:42:50,161
that made tires would call up somebody that made trucks and be like:

756
00:42:50,292 --> 00:42:53,055
"We give you tires?" And then the people who made trucks

757
00:42:53,199 --> 00:42:55,501
would call the company that made sugar and be like:

758
00:42:55,644 --> 00:42:59,439
"Do you need trucks?" And they'd work out these elaborate barters.

759
00:42:59,580 --> 00:43:01,992
- One thing I'd like to point out is that the collapse that's happening now

760
00:43:02,133 --> 00:43:04,911
is extremely different than any collapses that have occurred

761
00:43:05,055 --> 00:43:08,157
because of financial purposes. This is a resource collapse

762
00:43:08,308 --> 00:43:12,826
coupled with a debt collapse, coupled with a pollution acceleration

763
00:43:12,969 --> 00:43:17,123
coupled with a destabilization of the atmosphere and the climate.

764
00:43:17,275 --> 00:43:20,383
This is an amalgam of problems

765
00:43:20,527 --> 00:43:23,711
both man made, in the sense of abstraction, like the monetary system

766
00:43:23,854 --> 00:43:26,519
and what we've created as a result, the consequence of

767
00:43:26,662 --> 00:43:30,735
what we've been doing for so long. So even if the soldiers are paid

768
00:43:30,892 --> 00:43:35,108
they're going to come home to ravages. They're going to come home to lack of energy.

769
00:43:35,264 --> 00:43:38,157
They're going to come home to a depletion of food in many cases.

770
00:43:38,313 --> 00:43:42,123
So it's not going to work, even if they keep printing more and more money.

771
00:43:42,267 --> 00:43:45,871
This is the big difference with what happened in the Great Depression

772
00:43:46,021 --> 00:43:48,809
when there was plenty of resources. The fall of Argentina

773
00:43:48,940 --> 00:43:51,762
which was the credit expansion collapse...

774
00:43:52,607 --> 00:43:56,968
This is an completely new paradigm that we're entering into right now.

775
00:43:57,275 --> 00:44:00,277
So it's important to make that point. (Int#2) In Zimbabwe or something

776
00:44:00,428 --> 00:44:05,235
if your soldier's going home and he's being paid with a trillion dollar bill.

777
00:44:05,716 --> 00:44:08,627
- It's a marvel... (Int#2) It may break morale a little bit.

778
00:44:08,767 --> 00:44:12,577
- It's a marvel that it can even make it to a trillion dollar bill in my mind.

779
00:44:12,742 --> 00:44:15,028
So it's actually rationalized. "Oh, we need a trillion dollar bill?

780
00:44:15,166 --> 00:44:17,747
All right, let's do that one!" What the hell...?

781
00:44:17,900 --> 00:44:19,918
- It goes to show how arbitrary it is! - It is, but the fact

782
00:44:20,044 --> 00:44:22,924
that they even get that far blows my mind. (Int#2) They won't let go.

783
00:44:23,074 --> 00:44:25,219
There's ego for you.

784
00:44:25,825 --> 00:44:28,328
(Int #1) Does the movement have any presence at all in East Asia

785
00:44:28,472 --> 00:44:31,945
and China specifically? - China? No, not that I know of.

786
00:44:34,091 --> 00:44:37,265
You know, China... There are a few people. I've got a few e-mails from China.

787
00:44:37,396 --> 00:44:40,939
They've snuck through their Internet system evidently, and

788
00:44:42,283 --> 00:44:46,475
as far as I know, there was a few people that were trying to do something

789
00:44:47,823 --> 00:44:50,117
but there's no official chapter.

790
00:44:50,255 --> 00:44:52,680
There are other Asian countries that we have a presence in

791
00:44:52,830 --> 00:44:56,748
you can go to... (Int #1) Indonesia? - I think we have an Indonesian chapter

792
00:44:56,894 --> 00:45:00,819
a very small one. We have Singapore, yeah. (Int #1) Singapore's huge...

793
00:45:01,063 --> 00:45:04,863
- We have to start somewhere. - Singapore is an ideal city, actually, to have a...

794
00:45:05,025 --> 00:45:08,190
- The major land masses we don't have any real presence in is Russia.

795
00:45:08,346 --> 00:45:10,867
We have a Russian chapter but it's not very active

796
00:45:11,017 --> 00:45:14,503
as of last I checked. Russia is gigantic.

797
00:45:14,653 --> 00:45:16,621
And then Africa...

798
00:45:17,226 --> 00:45:19,712
We have a South African chapter now, but again

799
00:45:19,858 --> 00:45:22,294
it's a very small group, as you can imagine.

800
00:45:22,442 --> 00:45:25,967
And I guess those are the two dominant land masses.

801
00:45:26,117 --> 00:45:28,850
If you look at the maps of our chapters and the maps of Z-Day

802
00:45:28,990 --> 00:45:31,905
and the maps of this film. - Antarctica... - What's that?

803
00:45:32,062 --> 00:45:34,806
- As a continent, there's nothing on Antarctica. - That's true.

804
00:45:34,963 --> 00:45:36,957
They don't have to worry about that too much. The Eskimos, I don't think

805
00:45:37,105 --> 00:45:40,402
need a Resource-Based Economy. Are Eskimos on Antarctica ?

806
00:45:40,583 --> 00:45:45,838
That's a projection. I don't know anything about Antarctica.

807
00:45:46,054 --> 00:45:48,430
- I have something that I can say about the nature of the collapse

808
00:45:48,574 --> 00:45:50,853
and the transition. I think a lot of people have this notion

809
00:45:50,997 --> 00:45:53,684
that we're waiting to see this massive earthquake when suddenly

810
00:45:53,828 --> 00:45:57,130
everything stops, and overnight everything is a disaster.

811
00:45:57,281 --> 00:45:59,820
I don't think we're ever really going to see that, like you've been saying

812
00:45:59,959 --> 00:46:03,294
and I agree. We've been living in the collapse for the last 40 years.

813
00:46:03,437 --> 00:46:06,448
I mean, people are dying everyday. How many homeless do we have?

814
00:46:06,588 --> 00:46:08,951
The transition is going to be the same thing. I don't think overnight

815
00:46:09,101 --> 00:46:12,087
we're going to suddenly have "Fresco Cities" all over the world.

816
00:46:12,228 --> 00:46:17,066
It's a sliding scale, and in order for that sliding scale

817
00:46:17,206 --> 00:46:20,953
to start sliding back up towards positive transition

818
00:46:21,094 --> 00:46:23,970
we're going to need more and more people to wake up and realize

819
00:46:24,111 --> 00:46:27,081
that they have a choice. They can participate. Voltaire said

820
00:46:27,227 --> 00:46:31,122
that "Man is free the moment he chooses to be." So it's really up to us.

821
00:46:31,291 --> 00:46:34,042
I mean the Venus Project has been around for how long?

822
00:46:34,193 --> 00:46:36,681
And the Zeitgeist Movement has only been around for a few years

823
00:46:36,831 --> 00:46:39,165
and we already have about 500, 000 members or more.

824
00:46:39,325 --> 00:46:41,610
- It's been two years. - Two years...

825
00:46:41,741 --> 00:46:44,496
So that's a really short amount of time. Imagine what we could accomplish

826
00:46:44,643 --> 00:46:47,827
in another two years if that number doubled or tripled.

827
00:46:47,968 --> 00:46:50,895
And that's the point. That's how things are going to work

828
00:46:51,036 --> 00:46:54,289
if we have that critical mass. - Absolutely.

829
00:46:54,430 --> 00:46:57,300
- And the Venus Project was two before that.

830
00:46:57,441 --> 00:47:03,005
- Right. - Was what ? - Was two before that... the Zeitgeist Movement.

831
00:47:05,713 --> 00:47:09,397
(Int #1) Are you not concerned, from the perspective of hard science?

832
00:47:09,538 --> 00:47:13,725
We really are looking at a lot of solar activity.

833
00:47:13,865 --> 00:47:16,431
There is a lot of solar activity happening. The sun is emerging

834
00:47:16,572 --> 00:47:19,345
from an eleven years sleep cycle. - OK.

835
00:47:19,486 --> 00:47:24,751
- It does that every eleven years... (Int#1) ...and we are looking at...

836
00:47:24,901 --> 00:47:27,068
(Int#2) And it fries satellites every eleven years too.

837
00:47:27,218 --> 00:47:31,556
- ... a potentially large solar storm that could wipe out the grid.

838
00:47:31,706 --> 00:47:35,897
- Well, that's a whole new level of concern. - Technology.

839
00:47:39,634 --> 00:47:43,537
- I'm not as familiar with that... Sure...You know what ?

840
00:47:43,706 --> 00:47:46,117
Jacque poetically stated, and that'll always stay with me

841
00:47:46,257 --> 00:47:49,084
the only problems that exist are the problems

842
00:47:49,225 --> 00:47:53,244
that affect the whole of humanity, in the sense of human problems.

843
00:47:56,305 --> 00:47:59,727
We have no approaches holistically as a globe to resolve

844
00:47:59,867 --> 00:48:04,049
any global problems. That's a problem in and on itself

845
00:48:04,199 --> 00:48:06,865
that generates the need for a global system of some kind.

846
00:48:07,006 --> 00:48:11,270
(Int#1) Right. My question was, would that not be, almost

847
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,362
a nice segway into a future Fresco city

848
00:48:16,173 --> 00:48:19,511
for something like that to happen, would that be... ?

849
00:48:19,651 --> 00:48:23,406
(Int #2) Again, necessity creates action sometimes. - Sure.

850
00:48:23,875 --> 00:48:26,829
I'm quite understanding your point though. (Int#2) If the grid went out.

851
00:48:27,242 --> 00:48:30,396
- Oh, right. - This is not a new thing. It's not a hypothetical thing.

852
00:48:30,546 --> 00:48:34,522
It happens every cycle. Satellites get... - Interesting.

853
00:48:34,992 --> 00:48:39,746
- The Carrington Event...was the most famous incident

854
00:48:39,887 --> 00:48:43,810
and it lit telegraph machines on fire. I mean, it happens.

855
00:48:43,979 --> 00:48:49,074
(Int#1) We have a lot more for it to fry.

856
00:48:49,211 --> 00:48:54,840
- It's going to be an interesting future. - There are backups.

857
00:48:54,990 --> 00:48:58,222
- And that might be an excuse to shut down the activity

858
00:48:58,363 --> 00:49:00,581
because then only essential commerce would be allowed.

859
00:49:00,722 --> 00:49:05,202
So I can see it being contrived in a sense... - All problems are used

860
00:49:05,352 --> 00:49:08,024
by the political establishment. (Int#2) We never waste a crisis.

861
00:49:08,165 --> 00:49:11,300
- Absolutely. That's the first thing that all politicians

862
00:49:11,459 --> 00:49:13,643
even news media, when they see any event

863
00:49:13,784 --> 00:49:16,189
whether it's just for their self-interest on a shallow level

864
00:49:16,348 --> 00:49:20,935
or for something that they want to promote on their own extreme.

865
00:49:21,085 --> 00:49:24,462
- Anything that happens, they try to orient it

866
00:49:24,602 --> 00:49:27,677
for their self-interest in whatever way they can.

867
00:49:27,909 --> 00:49:30,749
So that's to be expected. It's an important point for people to remember

868
00:49:30,890 --> 00:49:33,732
especially every time we see any type of catastrophe.

869
00:49:33,873 --> 00:49:38,025
I won't even go into, what's inspired the wars that we've seen

870
00:49:38,165 --> 00:49:42,453
and all the press issues that come out with different individuals...

871
00:49:42,594 --> 00:49:47,373
Anyway, that's for another conversation. - I think about the question

872
00:49:47,514 --> 00:49:50,200
about whether or not the grid collapsing

873
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,417
would help move us towards a Fresco city. It could or it couldn't.

874
00:49:53,549 --> 00:49:55,613
The collapse might speed that up, but it also might make it

875
00:49:55,763 --> 00:49:59,224
far more difficult now because we can't use technology.

876
00:49:59,374 --> 00:50:01,947
If the grid collapsed, how are people going to use the Internet to communicate

877
00:50:02,075 --> 00:50:05,185
which is one of our greatest assets right now, especially as a movement?

878
00:50:05,336 --> 00:50:08,764
(Int#1) It wouldn't even collapse forever. I mean it would be a collapse of

879
00:50:08,905 --> 00:50:13,181
probably 3 or 4 weeks, but what would happen in those 3 or 4 weeks?

880
00:50:14,858 --> 00:50:17,033
- Anything can happen I think... (Int#2) It's hard to predict.

881
00:50:18,232 --> 00:50:20,908
We had an east coast blackout a handful years ago, right?

882
00:50:21,049 --> 00:50:23,802
But it only lasted a day or two, so it was beautiful.

883
00:50:23,952 --> 00:50:26,642
In most parts of New York City it was considered as a holiday.

884
00:50:26,792 --> 00:50:29,291
It was beautiful. Everyone treated each other... I mean it was really

885
00:50:29,432 --> 00:50:31,872
an indication of what humans would like to be with each other

886
00:50:32,013 --> 00:50:35,886
rather than like the system tells them to be. - Right.

887
00:50:36,026 --> 00:50:40,451
- For that night, everybody was gorgeous to each other.

888
00:50:40,611 --> 00:50:43,313
- Ask anybody that was here in 2003 about their blackout experience

889
00:50:43,463 --> 00:50:48,347
and some people had bad moments, but there was a lot of love going on.

890
00:50:48,488 --> 00:50:51,266
That was the overall instinct for most people.

891
00:50:51,886 --> 00:50:55,385
And so now, if the blackout had lasted two weeks

892
00:50:55,921 --> 00:51:00,026
when everybody's blood sugar starts to kick in, like on the fifth day.

893
00:51:00,570 --> 00:51:03,000
And they run out of food and then suddenly people start to remember

894
00:51:03,139 --> 00:51:07,810
they are armed, actually; and these aren't predictable things.

895
00:51:10,993 --> 00:51:14,984
(Int#1) But they know something is not right. They do.

896
00:51:15,754 --> 00:51:18,487
- I hope so. (Int#2) Obviously, they do...

897
00:51:18,900 --> 00:51:22,416
(Int#1)...Which is why they spend all this money like

898
00:51:22,566 --> 00:51:25,852
calling 311 and saying "Pack your go bag! Get ready!"

899
00:51:25,993 --> 00:51:28,868
This has nothing to do with 9/11. They don't give a shit.

900
00:51:29,011 --> 00:51:33,105
They really don't. They know that something else may happen.

901
00:51:33,255 --> 00:51:35,701
What that something else is? I don't know. I'm not clear on that.

902
00:51:35,841 --> 00:51:37,870
- You know what Mark Twain said?

903
00:51:38,011 --> 00:51:42,010
...that "the Earth is the insane asylum of the universe."

904
00:51:42,319 --> 00:51:45,688
- That's great. - And so, whether people do the right thing...

905
00:51:45,829 --> 00:51:49,303
They want change in you, not themselves.

906
00:51:49,444 --> 00:51:53,073
They want to change other people to see things their way.

907
00:51:53,477 --> 00:51:57,627
- As long as US thinks that way, Britain and France and Germany

908
00:51:58,031 --> 00:52:00,190
you're going to have problems.

909
00:52:00,331 --> 00:52:03,442
If we get to more people in less time

910
00:52:03,592 --> 00:52:06,148
and that people act, talk to other people

911
00:52:06,289 --> 00:52:10,530
and we build a large enough following, we can influence the future.

912
00:52:10,671 --> 00:52:14,693
If we fail to do that, whatever happens will happen.

913
00:52:14,852 --> 00:52:17,786
That's the way I see it. (Int#2) Can you draw a distinction between...

914
00:52:17,936 --> 00:52:21,556
When we're talking about global solutions, right?

915
00:52:22,842 --> 00:52:26,382
There's one set of people

916
00:52:26,861 --> 00:52:30,270
I think, at a more citizen level, who agree and who'd think

917
00:52:30,411 --> 00:52:33,661
that we're all in this together. We have to think about this way.

918
00:52:33,806 --> 00:52:37,179
We have to find mutual solutions; it's a very mutual aid

919
00:52:37,336 --> 00:52:39,608
kind of mind-set. - Sure

920
00:52:39,803 --> 00:52:43,452
- So, how do you talk to the people who talk about black helicopters

921
00:52:43,591 --> 00:52:48,384
and one world government and all that set of fears about...

922
00:52:49,450 --> 00:52:54,095
You can't let there be a global system according to this fear set.

923
00:52:54,290 --> 00:52:56,562
- The level of...

924
00:52:57,912 --> 00:53:00,742
I can't think of a word to describe

925
00:53:00,887 --> 00:53:04,423
the ignorance and mind-lock

926
00:53:04,568 --> 00:53:07,632
and religious faith and fear

927
00:53:07,771 --> 00:53:12,004
that people have of the world trying to work together.

928
00:53:12,143 --> 00:53:14,982
And that somehow you're going to end up with

929
00:53:15,127 --> 00:53:20,553
a grand world dictator that has everyone on leather leashes...

930
00:53:20,692 --> 00:53:22,669
(Int#1) That's the Pope.

931
00:53:23,685 --> 00:53:27,719
- And it blows my mind. I get e-mails about this all the time

932
00:53:27,858 --> 00:53:31,490
and if anyone is familiar with the feedback of "Zeitgeist: Addendum"

933
00:53:31,629 --> 00:53:34,394
there have been medias critics that have brought this up

934
00:53:34,533 --> 00:53:37,236
as though we're advocating some kind of new

935
00:53:37,375 --> 00:53:40,142
tyrannical one world government. You might remember

936
00:53:40,281 --> 00:53:42,641
in the early editions of "Zeitgeist The Movie"

937
00:53:42,780 --> 00:53:44,982
I talk about how the banking system had been planning on

938
00:53:45,121 --> 00:53:47,362
making a unified banking orientation

939
00:53:47,500 --> 00:53:49,613
which is essentially one world government, because government really is

940
00:53:49,752 --> 00:53:52,282
the movement of money; and they already have this.

941
00:53:52,420 --> 00:53:55,302
It's been around and it's called the "New World Order".

942
00:53:55,447 --> 00:53:57,968
But that label is contrived. The New World Order's definition

943
00:53:58,107 --> 00:54:02,604
has changed throughout time. It was first introduced by H.G. Wells

944
00:54:02,743 --> 00:54:05,712
in his book the "New World Order", which was actually a positive book

945
00:54:05,855 --> 00:54:08,065
that was completely misinterpreted by people

946
00:54:08,222 --> 00:54:10,580
that thought he was talking about eugenics

947
00:54:10,724 --> 00:54:13,813
and controlling people and micro-chipping them, and all these things

948
00:54:13,976 --> 00:54:16,321
that were basically invented out of thin air with regards to

949
00:54:16,465 --> 00:54:19,539
what his intentions were. And then he got morphed

950
00:54:19,683 --> 00:54:23,867
and then he got used by different famous personalities throughout time;

951
00:54:23,998 --> 00:54:27,633
and then now we have this psychotic weird group

952
00:54:27,770 --> 00:54:31,105
of religious fanatics, not necessarily of a Christian or anything.

953
00:54:31,249 --> 00:54:34,381
Yet they're religious in their blind view of this fear.

954
00:54:34,528 --> 00:54:37,524
And it's a big problem. I don't know what to say...

955
00:54:37,661 --> 00:54:40,360
because you can't rationalize... (Int#2) ...because it's not rational.

956
00:54:40,503 --> 00:54:42,624
- If anyone can't realize

957
00:54:42,756 --> 00:54:47,461
that the world is a singular system, that people share all the resources

958
00:54:47,611 --> 00:54:50,853
and it's completely interrelated synergistically

959
00:54:50,991 --> 00:54:53,969
and that there are global problems as it is a singular system

960
00:54:54,113 --> 00:54:58,007
if they can't realize that humanity has to work together.

961
00:54:58,151 --> 00:55:01,484
If one group has this; another group doesn't, then they're going to fight.

962
00:55:01,628 --> 00:55:04,154
That's just the way it's always been historically, and that's just the way

963
00:55:04,291 --> 00:55:06,603
we respond to scarcity and deprivation.

964
00:55:06,753 --> 00:55:09,345
If people can't get that under their belts, I don't know what to say.

965
00:55:09,489 --> 00:55:13,041
You just have to walk away when people bring that stuff up.

966
00:55:13,185 --> 00:55:16,678
I've actually been called a "one-worlder". (Int#1) They're the greatest detractors

967
00:55:16,828 --> 00:55:19,660
to what the work people are trying to do. It's actually really frustrating.

968
00:55:19,810 --> 00:55:22,416
- It is. I understand the fear of power

969
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,368
because we have been abused by power for years

970
00:55:25,690 --> 00:55:28,818
and I can understand that, but it doesn't reconcile

971
00:55:28,968 --> 00:55:31,980
the necessity to be organized. We have to get through

972
00:55:32,124 --> 00:55:36,633
this power neurosis, which is generated by the tradition of this system

973
00:55:36,771 --> 00:55:41,466
and the monetary self-interest. (Int#2) It's the hierarchy pyramid type structure

974
00:55:41,611 --> 00:55:45,245
versus a collaborative non-hierarchical. - Precisely.

975
00:55:45,389 --> 00:55:47,970
You abuse everyone at the bottom for the sake of the people at the top.

976
00:55:48,108 --> 00:55:50,475
Such as now, today... - You mean the Illuminati Triangle?

977
00:55:50,613 --> 00:55:53,145
- Well, if you want to call it that, but the triangle's been around

978
00:55:53,283 --> 00:55:56,755
for a long time in that sense. We have 1% of the population owning 40%

979
00:55:56,893 --> 00:55:59,629
of the planet's wealth, making all their money of essentially...

980
00:55:59,759 --> 00:56:03,061
the slavery of the entire... (Int#2) Pick a pharaoh, pick a king or whatever.

981
00:56:03,199 --> 00:56:06,874
- It's exactly the same. - It's just a variation a little bit better

982
00:56:07,030 --> 00:56:10,696
and it's hidden in America. People actually think they're free

983
00:56:10,834 --> 00:56:13,314
because they've been told they're free.

984
00:56:13,469 --> 00:56:16,677
They think they have democracy because they've been told.

985
00:56:16,821 --> 00:56:20,691
(Int#2) People can choose to tell themselves whatever they want.

986
00:56:20,828 --> 00:56:22,883
- They can condition themselves... I'm sure there's people...

987
00:56:23,046 --> 00:56:26,176
(Int#2) This is what I was saying to you... - It's Stockholm Syndrome.

988
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,000
When somebody's been in a bad relationship for a long time

989
00:56:29,143 --> 00:56:31,793
and they've been putting up with awfulness from the other person

990
00:56:31,934 --> 00:56:35,090
for a long time, I bet they have a justification for it.

991
00:56:35,240 --> 00:56:37,585
They've come up with a way to rationalize it to themselves

992
00:56:37,729 --> 00:56:41,583
and to their friends and whoever hears them talk about it

993
00:56:41,802 --> 00:56:45,154
because otherwise, why did you put up with all that, right?

994
00:56:45,298 --> 00:56:47,325
And people do that with everything. - They do...

995
00:56:47,469 --> 00:56:49,903
They justify, they constantly justify...